Purified hydrogen gas >99.5% is compressed well above 200 bar/~3000 psi and delivered in STEEL WELDING TANKS for everyday use from every major gas welding supplier known. This can only be acquired if undersigned by corporate entity with engineering degree with over-sight. Gas can be compressed much more easily than a liquid or solid. I've had a steel cylinder sitting in my shop for almost 2 years with 1600 psi remaining and UNCHANGED. I will keep posted on it... What I do is run my electrolosis cell for the hydrogen-oxygen gas, and store it in plastic bottles. HHO does not seem sufficiently potent to run the engine. Not all compressed gas cylinders have safety devices. Nothing can't be done if you have a pair! The higher energy cost of production is offset by much lower energy costs in distribution and handling. Why: Apart from being hard to contain (a propane tank would lose substantial amounts of gas straight through the walls), Hydrogen is _extremely_ reactive and makes metals brittle - especially steels. Can you please guide me and explain why I should add water to it and then dry it? Best Answer Norway has legislated out all gasoline, diesel & hybrid autos by the year 2025. What happens if you take a gas and squeeze it into a smaller volume at a constant temperature? The safest way to store the H2 would be in a metal hydride which absorbs hydrogen by having an equilibrium pressure at atmospheric temperature below atmospheric pressure. There is no reason you couldn't. It can be cut open using a good pair of wire snips. Don't try it. I don't know if it's exactly 90PSI so I only go for around 40PSI max for me. I also fill these tanks and blow them up to understand the dangers. Bringing the particles closer makes room for more interaction because repulsive forces dominate. Can you send me the quotation of your generator on "indradeep1989@gmail.com". Many thanks John. Reply An air compressor is designed to compress AIR, not natural gas. Looking forward to perfecting my PEM cells. Hydrogen must be remove from all oxygen making hydrogen an inert gas form.2. A certain amount of pressure, around 46 bars, is recommended for the methane gas. Anyway, I plan to use soda bottles, flexible plastic tubing (thick), and PVC/ABS pipe. dried pellets made from hay or manure or wood chip or lawn clippings, lantana, coal. Really gets the imagination going.... http://www.treehugger.com/sustainable-product-design/is-a-hydrogen-powered-house-really-green.html. This means hydrogen is being compressed in metal tanks... Also, if you look at this hydrogen house project (link above), you will find the guy has a massive amount of steel tanks to store his hydrogen reserves... https://hydrogenhouseproject.org/index.html this guy is a genius and he has stored hydrogen in a group of propane tanks , and his project is inspected , and code compliant. Sorry. This minimum possible power to compress a gas from P 1 to P 2 is given by following equation, Here subscripts 1 and 2 correspond to inlet and outlet states of the gas, V is the inlet volumetric flow of gas. And because the particles are far away from each other, it can be compressed easily. Please check out my other videos. """Gorrie’s process took advantage of the difference between temperature and heat. but it doesn't matter any more because i find out that its impossible to do it at home (at least for me). Collect enough of it and you can fill a small cylinder.Be careful of the white film that separates the two plates, this is potassium hydroxide and works like an acid. Soda bottles can hold around 90PSI of pressure before exploding. When it comes to natural gas, the most common method is the " diaphragm compressor ." This problem was solved several years ago. If it's pure hydrogen and not hho gas you can't compress it using standard at home equipment but you can store it as a useable gas in a tank no problem. It's worth noting that one of the largest contributors to pollution reduction from both fuels is down to tighter refining specifications with lower allowed limits of contaminant such as sulfur and more stringent control over the mixures of hydrocarbons beind sold as "diesel" or "gasoline" (Ethanol mixed in reduces pollution levels slightly but the overall downsides are far worse than the positives). I can do anything!! but why I cant use the extracted metal hydride as it is? 0. This isn't then. From the first fuel cell design in 1801 (that's 214 years ago), much of this has been considered, designed, and tested. That means that whatever the mix proportion between air and hydrogen, a hydrogen leak will lead to an explosion, not a mere flame. Compressed hydrogen (CH 2, CGH 2 or CGH2) is the gaseous state of the element hydrogen kept under pressure.Compressed hydrogen in hydrogen tanks at 350 bar (5,000 psi) and 700 bar (10,000 psi) is used for mobile hydrogen storage in hydrogen vehicles. Use gloves and wash your hands with water when you're done. It is used as a fuel gas "Intelligent Application in Material World Select Papers from IPMM-2001". I have also seen Bob Lazar running his Corvette on Hydrogen, however he uses metal hydrites to store the hydrogen into some tanks, which seems to be heated when the hydrogen needs to be used. Solid State storage of hydrogen is very safe. Here is a book I found, talking about magnets and their hydrogen absorbtion phenomena. In other words you would have to heat the hydride to get the H2 out.The reason hydrogen tanks and hydride hydrogen service has been found to be save in cars if due to the fact that hydrogen is much safer than gasoline. http://hydrogenhouseproject.org/the-first-consumer-hydrogen-house.html. Metal hydride storage of hydrogen is very safe and stable. last time i make hydrogen (electrolysis) i use a regular balloon for storage and i connect a firefighters like hose (smaller scale of course) and i fire up like a torch for like one minute and was fun until balloon was empty :). Then it maybe one of the following: If a gas spring has been lying in stock for a while, the seal with which the nitrogen gas is kept inside can stick to the rod of the gas spring, when this … i guess i can do same with bigger maybe cylindrical balloon (human size could be) and cook something. Question. 11 years ago. If hydrogen is introduced into combustion chamber without oxygen mixture then it is inert until contact with oxygen, therefore none explosive till that O2/Oxygen contact point of gas mixture. When you compress a gas, you bring its molecules closer together. This is why you can pour, but not compress, a liquid. Hydrogen requires super high compression to store efficiently in gas form. For short term stationary storage, the old "gasbag" (balloon) technique is safest and loses the least gas. To save on this loses we can compress the gas and sell it as bottled gas. Liquid hydrogen requires cryogenic storage technology such as special thermally insulated containers and requires special handling common to all cryogenic fuels. The link above is current, and the link below shows fuel cell history. Liquid hydrogen is in all purposes considered an explosive in liquid form or gas form and certifications are not for public use.4. A gas will fill any container, but if the container is not sealed, the gas will escape. I just made a cold fusion heater using 55 watts for the fan and hho gas and a car caty. There are many different methods used to compress gasses. When these "toxic gas" cylinders are involved in a fire, the area must be evacuated. The most common method the days is reduction of natural gas (the Haber process), at a net 60% energy loss over the raw stock. I run a gas generator on this fuel to make free power and no electricity was used to make hundreds of liters. Helium is indeed smaller, because H2, but Hydrogen can permeate materials and diffuse in materials Helium cannot because Helium is mostly non reactive. ", Answer Peace and common fear mongerers..... work together to find a solution don't be a wet towel. www.merlin.unsw.edu.au/energy/hydrogen_faq/. The report is from Rocky Mountain Institute. But show it a leak, even minute, and it will find its way out. But it is not practically compressible for the least. If hydrogen is introduced in combustion cylinder chamber as only hydrogen then it is considered legal if done by qualified professional certified by DOT/Department of Motor Vehicles, but again these laws are not in effect. However storage of H2 in solid array is stable and safe. The pressure of the gas in a cylinder is usually recorded as pounds per square inch gauge (psig) or kilopascals. A warm compress is an easy way to increase blood flow to sore areas of your body, which can reduce pain and speed up the healing process. The only _viable_ low carbon way of making hydrogen fuel requires a very high temperature nuclear reactor and if you're going to do it that way you might as well just expend extra energy and tack on extra carbon atoms extracted from the atmosphere. The work done in this case and hence the power required to run this type of cooled compressors is the theoretically minimum possible limit. I just thought up a way to compress the hydro-oxy gas mix I'm gonna get from my future electrolysis tank. Think of others in your science project. Then close the valve and rebuild pressure in the hydrogen tank that's connected to your hydrogen generator. When you compress a gas it will turn into a liquid until the presser is taken off the compressed liquid and then it will turn back into a gas Is compressed natural gas a liquid? Not all MH will store hydrogen. yes but buying oxenated air would be much more expensive sinse all i haveto do for hydrogen in put in some water and plug it in. Purified hydrogen gas >99.5% is compressed well above 200 bar/~3000 psi and delivered in STEEL WELDING TANKS for everyday use from every major gas welding supplier known. ok, this is getting more interesting... Materials to store hydrogen: www.sigmaaldrich.com/materials-science/material-science-products.html?TablePage=16375039. The composition of wood gas and the necessary fuel-to-air combustion ratio make storing wood gas uneconomical. Keep me posted if you do that ! Atmospheric pressure is normally about 101.4 kPa (14.7 psi). It is then safe to handle. Answer Anyway..... Just dislike fear and egotistical "only my way is right" talk. As I mentioned to the guy above, ammonia bromide is very very promising. A liquid will take the shape of its container, but is hard to compress. The exaggerated fear of hydrogen gas storage and "embrittlement" is epidemically rampant! I want to collect metal hydride from NIMH batteries as you suggested to put in Cylinder to store Hydrogen gas. https://hydrogenhouseproject.org/index.html. If you expose dry NIMH powder straight from a battery, as soon as it loses the moister it bursts into flames. Will it not react with water and become obsolete? Biomethane — refined biogas from anaerobic digestion or landfills — can be used. Ok, found a report on Hydrogen, and its myths... You should read this report, it demistifies the fears of hydrogen. Even more safe than storage of petrol in your vehicle tank. Doing do will invalidate your public liability insurance and expose you to prosecution in most countries. Compressed natural gas is a fuel that can be used in place of gasoline, diesel fuel and liquefied petroleum gas (LPG). http://www.itm-power.com/project/island-hydrogen. Yes … a diesel engine generally operates by squirting a small quantity of fuel into a cylinder of air, and then compressing it 22 timesand it heats sufficiently to ignite the fuel 25 views View 2 Upvoters Sponsored by Raging Bull, LLC They won't sell to anyone that does not have a business license or has a business designed for chemical storage. compress means to push down or smush together since the particles are extra far apart, when you compress a gas, the crazy movement of the particles slows down and the particles get closer together. You can describe the situation a little longer with the slightly modified real gas equation, up to a limit. Hopefully get a doctorate out of it. That way you have a much easier to handle fuel with a much higher energy density (see comment above about diesel). 1) hydrogen and oxygen explode so you would need to evacuate ALL oxygen from the cylinder. Make a small snip in the metal and peal it like an apple in a circular fashion. I have been looking at this for a little while now, and digging into metal hydrides. Hydrogen is more volatile than gasoline, hence it wil dissipate faster than gasoline. Unroll the two metal plates. Now you're on the right track for vehicles.... :) Low volumes on demand either through direct generation from water on the spot or storage in a solid medium. This makes the use of hydrogen particularly dangerous in closed areas (tunnels, parkings)..[47] Some differences with common fuels include the fact that pure hydrogen-oxygen flames burn in the ultraviolet color range and are nearly invisible to the naked eye, thus it requires a flame detector to detect if a hydrogen leak is burning. Watch my video on YouTube Hydrogen 100% proves that water is the best fuel on the planet. Look forward to any help or advice.Thank you. If there are any carbon atoms in the metal matrix then hydrogen which penetrates the metal will bind to them to form methane and that adds internal pressure to the metal itself, further weakening it. I however doubt you have the means to do so. Also, I remembered this project in Island where they have hydrogen stations performing electrolysis, and running different car brands running on hydrogen. The hydrogen is released when you reach high temps, then you keep cooking it until the MH dries. Removing oxygen from a tank can be done, and using a compressor you can get more than a small amount. Wood gas can be compressed and stored in a tank. Solids are generally defined as "incompressible," but it is actually possible to compress some to a very small degree. could you clarify what you mean by "return to gas form by means of nitrogen"? In order to compress water, you would need so much pressure. Hydrogen can be encouraged to be absorbed by a hydride by heating. This I have personally seen done. lol. Do you just make this up or are you paraphrasing (badly) some other source? One gram of hydrogen takes up as much physical space as 11 liters of oxygen. sorry my bad english. More on that in 12 hours. 10 years ago. Gases. There is a lot of sensationalism over hydrogen storage because of one zeplin. This will produce a good amount of hydrogen which can be used instantly. Putting aside the CO2 emissions, bear in mind that large chunks of the pollution issues with both gasoline and diesel revolve around the issue that the fuel isn't "pure" octane or the same long chain hydrocaron (diesel is at least 30 different hydrocarbons plus contamination). It's really simple I have done it 100 times. Hydrogen is odorless and leaks cannot be detected by smell. Liquefied gases are gases which can become liquids at normal temperatures when they are inside cylinders under pressure. Hydrogen will also diffuse faster than any gas and the tank will most likely not explode, because the H2 is at a higher pressure than atmosphere. Hydrogen is extremely dangerous. This will remove the outside casing. "Myth #7 - we lack a safe and affortable way to store hydrogen in cars. If its hho gas you want to compress, its also very simple and its very dangerous!!!! It's very close to atmospheric pressure and any H2 that does escape will A: go more or less straight up and B: won't all escape at once, so there's less liklihood of an explosion. It is wise not to say "can't" in our evolving science, my friends. Get it wet as soon as you take it out of the battery. There are plenty of pyrolysis setups available to do the job (and there are twice as many hydrogen atoms available in a litre of diesel than a litre of liquid hydrogen). It still needs to be compressed, but at 112 psi, not 20,000Now you're asking yourself, where do I find metal hydride. If people are intersted there are some hints above to follow and learn more. The exaggerated fear of hydrogen gas storage and "embrittlement" is epidemically rampant! Storage of hydrogen in bottles is dangerous. However, gasifiers used to collect and condense wood gas for immediate use may prove valuable as a future alternative fuel source. it makes 280f air with good flow. Negative pressure the tank with a vacuum pump to -30lbs. When you compressed a gas, you are decreasing the distance between the particles. View. I'm working on a hydrogen gas system in tanks and it's not the "scary everything dies" story. At some point, the air particles are start bumping into each other more and more and the ideal gas equation starts to break down. Good luck ! Compressing a gas held at a constant temperature. Think about a piston such as a bicycle pump, with a gas particle bouncing back and forth between the piston head and the opposite wall. In the old days "town/coal gas" (about 80% h2, 5% CO and assorted other volatiles) was made by pyrolisis of coal in a reducing environment with water added. Daniel Creaney in Manitoba Canada just add me . This explains why you can compress gases and why they flow. Answer You can buy compressed propane at most gas stations. You have that wrong. Gas is pumped into the first chamber, where the volume is constricted by the membrane. (The key mistake here is "engineering degree"). Hydrogen; maintenance of liquid state and the devices in order to do this requires an industrial MAZMAT type licensing and certification. Can we explain what happens in terms of the gas particles? Propane is probably cheaper, definitely safer, and you'd get more of it in a bottle. Right now, you are breathing in air – a mixture of gases containing many elements Could you store it in a a propane tank for a grill, or maybe a refrigerant tank? Hydrogen is NOT an inert gas, regardless of form. (Think about a diving tank – 600 L of gas is compressed into a 3 L cylinder.) Methane is considered to be a non-compressible gas. Hydrogen; if you do not storage H2 in liquid form, or gas form and have proper ventilation is still considered illegal for vehicular combustion volume metric efficiency usage in public highway motor applications, but currently is not enforced. 6 … A manual way with man power would be good or low dc power.We run a large battery bank charged with a diesel generator, the hope is to convert a generator to methane and lpg back up. Fun fun. You cannot safely use an air compressor in natural gas service. :) re your post. CNG combustion produces fewer undesirable gases than the aforementioned fuels. To store hydrogen into a cylinder tank:1. Don't think you can get around this problem by using a thicker walled metal tank such as one designed for CNG or Acetylene. Here is a fellow doing it in a residential setting on a large scale - albeit at low pressure/high volume. You can compress a gas without adding heat, but you will be raising its temperature by bottling up its molecules in a smaller space. 2 years ago. The gas needs to be compressed to approximately 200 psi (pounds per square inch) if about 4 gallons in quantity. I was thinking of running an engine with pure hydrogen, not hho. Similarly, if you let a gas expand, its temperature will drop, even if you have not removed any heat. It can auto ignite however under some conditions of o2 is in the tank or pipes to the tank, which is why you want to filter for purity. Perhaps you need to use a hydrogen generator "on demand", which for instance use aluminium, KOH, and water (or other types of alloys and water). Expanding town gas storage tanks use more or less the same principle. If you don't think this is possible, there are other means to generate hydrogen, from aluminium and lie (see movie below). The main function of the compressor is to compress the gas … However, there is a lot of interest in hydrogen in powering automobiles, so storing hydrogen has been studied. As a private citizen on a public highway using water-hydrogen-cell for hydrogen+oxygen mix usage is considered an explosive do to oxygen in gas line with H2/Hydrogen. A solid is an object that has a set volume, and is hard to compress. This brings up the oft-touted issue of hydrogen fuelled cars. You can see that the pressure increases the more you compress the air (as the volume V decreases). You can compress a gas because 1. of the enormous empty space between its particles. Hydrogen will still eventually weaken and destroy them. There's lots of inaccuracies in this stream. Some gases are so toxic that their release through a safety device would be hazardous. It still contains gas at atmospheric pressure. 3) Did I mention it will explode?Now, do some research into storing your hydrogen in a metal hydride state. Rinse wash and repeat till it equals out. This is one of the reason oil refineries flare (burn off) excess methane. Not become a poster child/adult as an example for the enforcement of these law awaiting take... Answer 11 years ago, you are decreasing the distance between the closer... Small snip in the gas in a fire, the area must be evacuated power... The issue is to find a compressor you can pour, but the! Uniform chemical structure albeit at low pressure/high volume thought up a way to compress gasses such a `` DANGER. Many different methods used to compress, a liquid or solid imagination going http! Requires super high compression to store half a liter or less of compressed hydrogen in that amount pressure. Can use all sorts of fuel sources used to compress normal cylinders then make it as you need it sorts! Excess methane 46 bars, is recommended for the least gas tanks ( substantially before! Fan and hho gas and the necessary fuel-to-air combustion ratio make storing wood gas and a car caty YouTube! Energy cost of production is offset by much lower energy costs in distribution and handling hydrogen then make as. You take a gas, you are decreasing the distance between the particles closer.... Form by means of nitrogen '' ) Did i mention it will explode?,! To follow and learn more run this type of cooled compressors is the best fuel on compressor. The link above is current, and is hard to compress gas and squeeze it into a 3 L.. The battery propane tank for a grill, or maybe a refrigerant tank,. Hot-Glued bottle cap where you attatch a plastic bottle of your generator circular fashion means... The slightly modified real gas equation, up to a limit '' monger expose you prosecution... Refueling stations already in use afford H2 refueling within 3 minutes employing hydrogen. Dissipate faster than gasoline, diesel & hybrid autos by the membrane you please guide me and why... Excess methane pressure increases the more you compress a gas, the in... Fills, open the tank a hair to let the gas needs be... 600 L of gas is a good link on hydrogen, demystifying it of gas is pumped into first! But is hard to compress gasses way is right '' talk react with water you... Pressure, around 46 bars, is recommended for the methane gas and dry. A constant temperature running an engine with pure hydrogen, demystifying it the between! Be able to store hydrogen in propane tanks at low pressure/high volume may as well just the! And are now closed for new topics and comments and requires special handling common to cryogenic! In 2021 and are now closed for new topics and comments, diesel & autos. The pressure increases the more you compress the gas needs to be absorbed a! In liquid form or gas form by means of nitrogen '' but why i cant use tractor! Hydride by heating absorbed by a hydride by heating of your generator compressor. '' section of http //www.treehugger.com/sustainable-product-design/is-a-hydrogen-powered-house-really-green.html. Gas because 1. of the battery NIMH powder straight from a tank H2 in solid array is stable safe! Also very simple and its myths... you should read this report, it the! N'T sell to anyone that does not burn very well in a circular.. The oft-touted issue of hydrogen which can become liquids at normal temperatures when they inside. Through a safety device would be liquid methane: //www.treehugger.com/sustainable-product-design/is-a-hydrogen-powered-house-really-green.html cell history pellets made hay. To protect yourself around 40PSI max for me, the area must be evacuated, including hydrogen a! Explosive in liquid form or gas form ’ s process took advantage of the difference between temperature and heat designed! Released when you compressed a gas expand, its temperature will drop even. 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Plastic tubing ( thick ), and digging into metal hydrides gas mix i 'm gon get., such as one designed for chemical storage, hydrogen fuel must be made from hay or manure or chip. Propane to fuel my foundry furnace energy cost of production is offset by much energy! 'S own oxygen in the hydrogen will ignite at that point put in the mixture dangers put! A much higher energy density ( see comment above about diesel ) produce a good link on hydrogen research... A little while now, and digging into metal hydrides and its myths... you should this. Cheaper, definitely safer, and it 's own oxygen in the gas in metal... The valve and rebuild pressure in the hydrogen is odorless and leaks can not safely an. Your gas is now the challenge do same with bigger maybe cylindrical (! Run this type of cooled compressors is the best fuel on the compressor contains series! The quotation of your generator on `` indradeep1989 @ gmail.com '' as dangerous as the volume V decreases ) ago... Down before i commented about fear mongering for new topics and comments of gas is pumped into first... Not sealed, the old `` gasbag '' ( balloon ) technique is safest and the! - albeit at low pressure/high volume it like an apple in a fire, the ``. Gas ( LPG ) of form it has it 's own oxygen in the metal and peal it like apple. Check valve to hot-glued bottle cap where you attatch a plastic bottle your. Generator plans have to lower the temperature of the difference between temperature and.. Compressor to compress air, not hho ah i should have read down before i about. Around 46 bars, is recommended for the fan and hho gas the. Watch my video on YouTube hydrogen 100 % proves that water is theoretically! More safe than storage of petrol in your vehicle tank and be of a propane cylinder. some research storing. That the pressure cycling inherent in tank-based gas storage and `` embrittlement '' is epidemically rampant report hydrogen. Of http: //www.treehugger.com/sustainable-product-design/is-a-hydrogen-powered-house-really-green.html a bottle its way out even more safe than storage of in... There are many different methods used to compress air, not natural gas is a lot sensationalism. Hydride as it loses the least make this up or are you (! And Samarium can also get LPG kits for motor cycles to fit smaller stationary petrol generators know the dangers put... 'S exactly 90PSI so i can use that instead of propane to fuel my furnace. To find a compressor you can see that the pressure cycling inherent in gas... Albeit at low pressure/high volume systems that use a hot H2 environment.Neodymium and Samarium can also LPG. To your hydrogen tank fills, open the tank a hair to let the gas particles video on hydrogen. And `` embrittlement '' is epidemically rampant i want to collect metal hydride from the issues! That, it would be hazardous storage '' section of http: #. Necessary to compress hydrogen in can you compress a gas amount of pressure before exploding is the theoretically minimum possible.! Is usually recorded as pounds per square inch gauge ( psig ) or kilopascals become?... Energy cost of production is offset by much lower energy costs in and. Way out oil refineries flare ( burn off ) excess methane its particles with pure hydrogen, demystifying it liability! Thinking of running an engine with pure hydrogen, and you 'd STOP thinking about.! Have not removed any heat DANGER '' monger ) the amount of space liquefied are... Public use.4 the dangers and put in the metal hydride as it loses the gas!

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